Thoughts on CSI:NY, DL, Mootana, and whatnot - More than likely will contain spoilers

[kinkapoodles]

I haven't done this in a while because well, I didn't really want to stop and take the time for it but what the hell. Today it's nice outside despite the clouds and I'm sitting here on my back porch with my laptop and the quiet (kids are inside playing) and I thought I'd pitch in my two cents (on my LJ this time) about my feelings on DL and Lindsay and CSI:NY in general and whatever else I think up.

First things first. DL (as shitty as it may be) is canon. I know that and frankly, I don't give a damn because I can ignore canon to fill my fanon needs. I don't need my ship to be canon to make me happy. I have fiction (read as well as sometimes write) and RPGs where my ship is together and happy. I don't care what is canon.

Please explain to me why, if your ship is canon, would you care what others thought? YOUR SHIP IS CANON! Does it really matter if others hate it? I'll tell you one thing right now, tptb will EVER convince me to like DL no matter how hard they try because you see, I have a brain and can think on my own. So they're canon, big f-ing deal.

I am happy that Danny is so excited about having a baby and I have to laugh that he is much more excited about that than he is about Lindsay. He couldn't even give Mac a straight answer when he asked if Lindsay was right about why Danny wanted to marry her. If Danny was so sure about them as a couple, Danny would have immediately said 'NO, she's not.' but he didn't. He stammered along until he had me laughing. Mac was right about regrets because one of these days Danny is definitely going to regret marrying her.

Danny is so obsessed with doing the right thing that the wedding just made me laugh that much harder. Telling her "I'll be the man you want me to be." was just pathetic. What kind of good and loving relationship could they possibly have if one person has to make themselves change just to make the other happy? It's more proof that Danny will do anything he can to please anybody. I'm still trying to figure out just where the rule is that OMG you must get married to have a baby that you conceived when you weren't even together. Babies don't automatically make problems go away. Temporarily yes but in the long run, the problems that you had will still be there but now they''ll be an innocent child thrown into the mix.

So the ship is canon, they're married, and they're having a baby in episode 23. What's the problem? It's certainly not a problem for me. It's entertaining in a 'making fun of them' kinda way and while I hope that season 6 isn't full of the Messer family drama shit I know it will be, watching them crash and burn will be totally worth it.

Thanks so much Anna for screwing up what would have been an awesome season 5 with Rikki having Danny's baby. That made much more sense than what we're getting but how often do tptb ever do anything that makes sense? The finale is a great example. Yep, let's give Flack a woman. Let's show him happy with Jess. Let's give the non-DL fans a canon relationship that actually works and is a hundred times better than DL and then let's take it all away by killing her off. WTF is up with that? Can tptb not handle the fact that FA, in a few short months, is much better than the three plus seasons they've pushed DL in our faces? Were they getting too much good feedback on FA? So irritating.

The reason I do not like DL and Lindsay has nothing to do with me thinking I am or wanting to be Lindsay. I'd rather cut off my right arm than be her. I do not think Danny or Don is my boyfriend (that would be a bit pathetic). They totally love each other. XD I love Danny and Don both but I have to admit that Don is my favorite. I also do not hate Jess. I like her and I think she and Flack are sweet together and I'm gonna be sad to see Don lose his girlfriend.

I thought Rikki was a sweetheart who was good for Danny no matter what brought them together. Danny showed more affection and love toward her in just a few minutes than he has for Lindsay in over three seasons. What's that say about DL? I also think that if Danny and Rikki would have had a child, he may have felt less guilt over Ruben. No child will ever replace Ruben but Danny could have felt like he gave her something he felt he took away. Unfortunately we'll never know how well season 5 could have been with no DL, Danny with Rikki, and Lindsay doing whatever the hell they'd do with her. I'd hate to play a character that tptb really didn't bother to develop outside of one character.

I think that's all for now. I moved back inside when it cooled down a bit and started raining and now my little chatterbox (Dylan) has been talking nonstop.

Comments

[ginny305.livejournal.com]

I give your rant two thumbs up. ;) For me, this crap with DL has ruined NY for me. I just can't stand how it's shoved down my throat. Canon? Whatever. I gave up my trust of "canon" relationships long ago (thank you Trek writers). Canon means nothing when half the couple makes no impact onscreen. And I'm not really saying anything worthwhile there, I'm just here to say that I agree.

[kinkapoodles.livejournal.com]

Thanks! Glad you liked my ranting. :)

DL is such a joke and now that there's a baby involved, poor child.

I'd LMAO if viewership really dropped after all this mess. I know quite a few people who have given up on the show.

[df-chipz.livejournal.com]

Seconding nerfgunqueen's comments.

But I'll also say this: It really says something that there are DL shippers who now hate the ship and left it. That's the price shippers pay when their ship goes canon and TPTB royally fucks it up; only the most pathetic and clingy of the lot will continue to like it ... not because they're actually happy, but because they literally have nothing else to live for.

The real winners are the ones whose ship will never go canon and never be messed with by TPTB. Why do ya think slash fandoms are so enormous and powerful? Fandom runs on subtext and imagination, not canon validation. And anyway, if you even need canon validation just to feel like your ship means anything to begin with, how sad is that?

[kinkapoodles.livejournal.com]

The real winners are the ones whose ship will never go canon and never be messed with by TPTB.

Exactly! They don't know how unlucky they are to have a canon ship. The only canon ship I do like is Flack/Angell and I think it's only been done well because it's ending, which is a shame.

[letitrainblue.livejournal.com]

I also agree with your rant. I wonder how will they play the whole thing out in season 6 (meaning how will they screw it up even more than now).

The whole thing is ridiculos, and it's a shame that this story line literally craped all over a show that used to be great. *sigh*

[kinkapoodles.livejournal.com]

I'm afraid to know how they'll play it out but I'm sure it'll be FUBAR when they do.

What really sucks though is another damn season of Mootana sucking the life out of Danny.

[faylinn-drake.livejournal.com]

Oh no you di'int! :P

BTW, this is totally going to exceed the character limit. Don't you love me when I ramble? :D

I think continuing the storyline between Danny and Rikki would have had a lot of dramatic potential - perhaps too much dramatic potential for TPTB because it seems like 3-episode-arcs and baby drama are the most dramatic stories they can handle. Their continuity is spotty on the best of days, but I was optimistic at the beginning of the season. Now don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Anna or her desire to have a family - more power to her. But that's in real life - this is fiction we're talking about here, and TPTB can try to spin it until we all get dizzy - but it's not going to work.

If you accept whatever TPTB tells you without question, you might believe that all of the baby/marriage/retconning-last-season-to-accommodate-it nonsense is a-ok, and more power to you if that's the case.

If you are willing to take huge leaps to Make It Work and accept that you have to really suspend your disbelief to swallow some of this stuff - hey, if it makes the show enjoyable to you, that's all that matters. More power to you, I envy your ability to sit back and take it all in.

If you can come up with a way for it all to make sense, a way to interpret everything that has happened so that it all works for you - that's awesome for you. More power to you, especially if you can explain your interpretation in a way that makes sense to other people (even if they may not agree). I ain't mad at ya, do your thing.

But for the people who expect it to make sense as-is - without interpretation, broad suspension of disbelief and the willingness to eat whatever drivel they feed you and say it tastes like chocolate - this blows.

This is why I don't want to get into the fandom for any other shows. NY is my first and only fandom, and I'm not branching out. When you start interacting with other fans, several things happen. Yes, some of those things are good (and arguably worth joining fandom for), but one thing that can be very bad is that you start to give the show more thought. You start to analyze things, you start to discuss the plots and the characters and everything in between. You start to speculate and even develop expectations based on all of this discussion and speculation. The reason that this can be very bad is that if - or perhaps when - it all goes in an undesirable direction (such as down the toilet), you're left feeling disappointed and unable to enjoy the show the way you once did. You want it to live up to your expectations, but it will (perhaps inevitably) fail. Yet you still feel some amount of obligation to watch the show because you're more attached to it than you might be to other shows.

Of course, some people have no trouble dropping the show - or can drop it more easily than the rest of us.

Damnit, CSI:NY, I wish I knew how to quit you!

Quote:

First things first. DL (as shitty as it may be) is canon. I know that and frankly, I don't give a damn because I can ignore canon to fill my fanon needs.

Ah, and there is one of the big rifts between the figurative Us and Them. Some people expect canon to be taken as the gospel truth, with no other interpretation allowed. But the fact is, what's on the show is fiction, and some people are more willing to fiddle with that fiction than others.

Let's face it - if I write a story where Hawkes got beamed down by aliens and gets Adam pregnant with his 3-tentacled assbaby, it's no less 'real' than what actually happens on the show every week. As much as people love it - and believe me, I do love parts of the show (perhaps even a majority of it) - it's FAKE. There are a lot of differences in fans - it's not just differences in how we interpret canon or chemistry or whatever else. Sometimes it's differences in how and why we watch - and what we do with the show they put on the TV every week. Once it has aired, it becomes just as much *mine* as anybody else's.

[faylinn-drake.livejournal.com]

(Continued - because I knew it would exceed the limit. It's amazing I don't have carpal tunnel syndrome by now.)

Quote:

The reason I do not like DL and Lindsay has nothing to do with me thinking I am or wanting to be Lindsay...I do not think Danny or Don is my boyfriend...I also do not hate Jess.

I'll never get that accusation - that we don't like Lindsay or DL because we're jealous. Jealous of what? If I was jealous of Lindsay getting Danny instead of me, that would imply that I want to get with a fictional character. I'm as guilty of having 'crushes' as the next fan - everybody has done it at some point, so don't even deny it :P - but I know when to separate fiction from reality, and being jealous of Lindsay would indicate an inability to separate the two. (Besides, if I'm going to be jealous of someone, I'd be jealous of anybody but Lindsay.)

If I was jealous of Lindsay being with Danny because I'm a Danny/Flack fan - how does that make sense if I like Flack/Angell (for the most part) and enjoyed the interaction between Danny and Rikki last season? Maybe Danny getting with someone else ruins the pet ship for other people, but I don't feel that way - I might not always feel like working around the canon to make the slash work (translation: I'm too lazy to write fic), but Danny and Flack getting busy with other people doesn't prevent me from shipping them together. I never thought they'd get together anyway.

I don't really get the obsession with It Must Be Canon shipping (or There Must Be Nothing To Indicate That It Was Not Always Canon shipping, aka Danny's Peen Is Only For Mootana). If Don and Timmy broke up in the Strachey universe, I'd be devastated for a while - but that ain't gonna happen because their relationship is as important to the movies (arguably more important) than the plots themselves. It's a totally different kind of situation than a show like CSI:NY. I had moments when couples I liked broke up on Dante's Cove and Noah's Arc - but I got over it. I didn't hate on other people for liking half of those couples with other people, even when they were together (aka when I was 'right'). Toby and Kevin on Dante's Cove are a perfect example - people hated them, and that's fine. In fact, I understand completely. Seeing the flaws didn't stop me from liking it - or from wanting them to get back together. And now that Toby is with Adam (albeit trapped in a shadowy otherworld or something for the moment), people are gleeful - but while I'm not a fan of that pairing, I have no problem with the fans who ship it. In fact, I'm glad they enjoy it. I might have a problem with the ship, but not the shippers - I have no desire to run around trying to convert shippers to my slashy pairing of choice.

I don't measure the value of my opinion - or of the relationship I support - on the number of people who agree (or disagree) with me. I liked Adam and Hawkes together even when I thought I was the only one who was into it - having other people jump on board is nice, but it doesn't make me think the pairing is better. (It also didn't make me want to burn Kendall in effigy - I did have my issues with the character, but that had nothing to do with whether or not she got to stroke the sacred nerd peen and everything to do with her being snobby and annoying and not as awesome as Garcia on Criminal Minds. If she was as awesome as Garcia, I'd be writing feedback to TPTB demanding that they bring her back so she could have lots of sex and babies with Adam - and I'd still slash his adorable little ass with Sheldon. Whoring out your favorite characters FTW!)

Anyway, this is way long (and getting off-topic), and I've been typing it off and on for hours - I am so easily distracted. :D

[kinkapoodles.livejournal.com]

I don't measure the value of my opinion - or of the relationship I support - on the number of people who agree (or disagree) with me.

There's where we differ from others. We don't give a crap who, if anybody, likes who we ship whether it be Danny/Fack, Adam/Hawkes, or Danny/anything that moves. I also don't need a canon ship. Screw that. If DL is all tptb can give us, I'm not taking the bait.

As for being jealous of Lindsay..that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. All I can say is 'who the hell would want to be her? She's the last person I'd ever want to be. She is easy to self-insert with though but still...ewww...not.gonna.happen.

Anyway, this is way long (and getting off-topic), and I've been typing it off and on for hours - I am so easily distracted. :D

LOL You're not alone. It says I posted this at 2:10 but that's when I started it but it was after 5 before I finished and posted.

[kinkapoodles.livejournal.com]

WHOA! I think your comment is bigger than my rant. ^_^

Now don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Anna or her desire to have a family - more power to her.

Exactly! I have nothing against it either. This is all about Lindsay and her fictional pregnancy. Some people need to get that through their heads but then again, I guess that's hard to do when some people mix up fiction and reality.

But for the people who expect it to make sense as-is - without interpretation, broad suspension of disbelief and the willingness to eat whatever drivel they feed you and say it tastes like chocolate - this blows.

It blows big. Plus, even if I liked the storyline, I'd still slash the boys.

Damnit, CSI:NY, I wish I knew how to quit you!

That made me snicker. Now I wanna watch BBM again. *sniffle*

LOL. You're determined to get Adam pregnant by Hawkes.

And now, on to your continuation. XD

[faces-of-angels.livejournal.com]

Mwah, I missed your rants :D. Welcome back *evil grin*

The reason I do not like DL and Lindsay has nothing to do with me thinking I am or wanting to be Lindsay. I'd rather cut off my right arm than be her. I do not think Danny or Don is my boyfriend (that would be a bit pathetic).

That's something that always bothered me. When I don't like Lindsay that it has a reason but it's for sure none of the above mentioned. But that's what all D/L fans come up with " U don't like her because u wanna be her" --->LOL

I have nothing to add to ur rant, it kinda mirrors what i have on my mind about this whole D/L thing ..

[kinkapoodles.livejournal.com]

I've totally gotten lazy with the rants and have spent plenty of time ranting on other journals. I think I'll be doing a lot of ranting again from now on since the show is starting to get rather shitty - at least where DL is concerned.

[bambiblake007.livejournal.com]

i am so late, but whatevz.

yeah, i've encountered a few delusional DL fans who think we are jealous of Lindsay cos she has Danny, but really, i'm not jealous of her. i could care less about her & what she has or doesn't have. really, my qualm about DL is that they don't mesh well together, meaning: CARMINE & ANNA HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO CHEMISTRY!!!1 yeah, apparently, the DL fans can't grasp that, so they say: "Lindsay hater!! DL hater!! dirty DF shipper!! Rikki was stupid, why do you like her??"

personally, i think if Rikki had been the mother of Danny's child, not Lindsay, then i would be lovin it this season. i'm having a hard time watching for some reason these last few episodes. it's become background noise. yeesh. i am a Danny/Rikki shipper myself, cos i felt they connected & had tonz more passion in very few scenes together than DL has ever had!!

but there is no getting thru to those DL shippers. they see what they want. they think what they want. a lot of times i wonder if some of them are even watching the same show as me. and then other times, i wonder if they are just inserting themselves into the Lindsay character & dreaming up stuff to suite their "reality" (or a lil of both, perhaps?)